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I hear Fruitvale is closed because protestors are blocking the faregates.
Very mature.. But then again, it is Fruitvale.. If you live there you know it is a wonderful place..
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 7:03pm
yea, I am watching the live footage on the NBC 5 o'clock news now.
If only the community cared so much when drug dealers shot other dealers.
UPDATE 6pm: the demonstrators are marching from Fruitvale Station toward the BART Offices in downtown Oakland
UPDATE 7pm: the demonstrators are jumping on a Oakland police car and have broke out the car windows.
They are also setting dumpsters on fire.
Oakland riot police have been deployed with tear gas
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 7:39pm
The first announcement I heard was around 4:38pm at Powell. It said the Fruitvale station was closed due to protesters and that there was a bus bridge at Coliseum.
As soon as I heard the word protest, I thought RIOT!
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 8:46pm
Ghee, if only they put all that energy into getting an education, getting employed, raising their children appropriately and off Section 8. Unbelieveable.
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 9:57pm
I love how people are honoring the dead by engaging in senseless destruction and putting innocent people at risk. What fine upstanding citizens you protestors are. Congratulations. Be safe out there Shrap and Jo Jo, it's likely to be a long night.
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 10:58pm
it's 11pm and they are still showing arrests live on TV
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 2:34am
Thanks Treo. I couldn't help catching the news clips and good ol' BART RAGE before bed. Four hours of sleep and back I go.
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 6:09pm
ummm.. please put this in 'dumbass T.O. of the day'... for announcing that there were 'luxury buses' waiting at Coliseum BART to take us BACK to Fruitvale... I got to take a nice 70 minute ride to the airport, the ferry, alameda... only to be dropped off DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE PROTEST... don't treat your customers like fcuking morons, just be straight with us. You aren't funny.
there were no announcements at embarcadero, and it sure didn't seem like there were many (or any) protesters on the train... BART really fcked this one up in so many ways... and treated the regular riders like utter sh1t
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 6:24pm
I have to agree--there were no annoucements made by my TO until we got to Fruitvale--someone who might not have had access to TV, radio or the internet (it happens!) in the hours prior to their trip might have found themselves in a pickle.
What was really odd was that the TO said they were going to try to re-open the station at about 5:15 or so? (I think that's when I was there). I saw one person got out of my car, but I wonder if she ended up running into the protest too. The other side's train didn't stop and I even saw the sign flash "TRAIN WON'T STOP".
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 6:31pm
Were the protesters blocking the tracks or did BART just want to control the size of the protest and keep people from hearing the protesters' message? I'll bet on the last two. Tell me, Chief Gee Whiz Which One's My Taser: If I shot someone by mistake, would it take SEVEN DAYS before you arrested me for manslaughter? Hello! Hello! Is this thing on?
Wed, 01/07/2009 - 10:09pm
Hello! Hello! Protesters blocking the entrance to the station, for safety they shut down the station.. Maybe if they were not on and in front of the fare gates the station would have stayed open.. Hmmmm?
Notice it was a small group at one station, one city.. I think for most people in the bay area today was business as usual.. I think most people are smarter than those spouting off today ( did have a laugh when I saw a guy holding a sign saying something about give him the needle, amazing) .
Oh and Hello, Hello.. There is no charge of manslaughter, which means no warrant for his arrest.. Wouldn't that be the job of the DA?
On that same note, I believe he is under "police protection", doesn't that sound like they have him?
What's your next spout off?
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 1:28am
Did you see the sign about Gaza, like that has something to do with the protest. You gotta know there are professional agitators out in these protests to create anarchy and destruction.
Be safe out there Bart Officers and employees, you'll never know when the crowd will turn on you.
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 7:38am
These protests and especially their little "march" as they like to call it are total BS. Busting windows at a nail salon and the making comments like "bitch should just be glad it was her store and not her life" or destroying a teachers car and then shouting "bitch, fuck your car.". Good job protestors. Destroy the property of your fellow oakland residents to protest an "excessive force" issue with the police.
It is this exact kind of mentality that had the cops on edge at fruitvale on new years. They were probably outnumbered 20 to 1 by a bunch of crazed drunk/high people. In a situation like that I could easily see mistaking a gun for a taser, especiallly when you had only been assigned a taser about a month before.
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 9:13am
Love it when trashy people destroy their own..
Ghetto stays ghetto.. I just hope the money to pay for everything comes out of their city of Oakland..
This comes from lack of enforcing the minor crimes.. They are like little children, if you don't beat them from time to time, they will beat back.
What's the saying, spare the rod, you end up spoiling the child.
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 11:19am
An in 2 or 3 months they will be protesting that Oakland is a SH*T hole and it is unfair they have to live there.
They will be protesting that there are no jobs in Oakland ( hint: the stores where forced to move / go out of business ).
They will be protesting Oakland does not get any money for improvements ( since all the money when to repairing things after last nights "party" ).
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 3:11am
If nothing else, at least this incident has stirred some posting around this place.
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 9:50am
Wow, looks like I interrupted a Klan rally here at BART Rage. The nice thing about posting online is that you don't have to wear your hood. Carry on.
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 10:06am
Racism by the racists, in this day and age of Obamamania? So if you talk about the protesters, the majority being "of color", you're racist and are holding an online "Klan rally". Don't you just love the anonymity of the internet?
Today, I saw the NAACP Representitive addressing the Bart Board and essentially saying the killing was a racist act. Lemme ask you Tranist First, when do you draw the line at racism and the false accusations of? Clearly it was a f***ing tragic accident, not a racist act like so called "black leaders" would have you believe; on that note, why do blacks need leaders? Or is that a racist question since I said "black"?
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 1:11pm
We all know racism only applies to white against black..
Want to watch racists squirm? Ask them if whites can access minority benefits since they are no longer the majority..
If there were a NAAWP, i bet people would think it was racist.
Those that bring racism to the table are racists themselves.. Search this site and we can probably name a few here that have brought race up..
It was tragic, an uneducated convicted criminal lost his life in a tragic accident.. Did any of his actions contribute? Donno. i was not there..
Does the officer have a criminal record? Did he get an education?
Lets look at their character.
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 1:37pm
Let us try to remember that the vast majority of protesters conducted themselves in a responsible and peaceful manner. I do not condone the destruction of property which took place at the hands of a few. Moreover, those who choose to castigate a large group of mostly peaceful protesters who were exercising their first amendment rights have been doing in a very hostile manner.
Furthermore, I do not approve of BART’s decision to close any of its stations in response to the protest. First of all, according to press reports, no violence took place at Fruitvale station.
As reported by the Chronicle:
“The unrest had its origins in a peaceful protest at the Fruitvale BART station. A splinter group broke away around sundown and marched to downtown Oakland, where chaos erupted.”
Source - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/08/BA2A155RRO.DTL
Thus, why was Fruitvale station closed if there was no threat to public safety?
The article in the Chronicle goes on to state:
“The protest forced BART to temporarily shut down the 12th Street, Lake Merritt and Fruitvale stations at various points Wednesday. All were reopened in time for this morning's commute.”
Forced to shut down, my ass! As if they didn’t have a choice. Regarding the situation downtown, it seems to me that the violence was taking place on the street. I also seem to remember the BART tracks and stations in Downtown Oakland being underground, not on the street level. So what possible threat did the protesters on the street level pose to people on trains and in stations underground?
Did AC Transit shut down service to Downtown Oakland? I’m sure some of their buses were diverted around the protest area (I know that the Broadway and 14th ST intersection was closed for a time), but did they suspend service? Not that I know of. Does someone have a press report that suggests otherwise?
I have been to many protests (most of which had a few bad apples that became combative with police) in downtown SF, but have never experienced a station closure during those times. What makes this any different?
I was under the impression that BART is responsible for ensuring safety within the BART system. Protecting the public outside of the BART system is the job of the local cops.
What the hell are the BART police good for if they shut down stations due to actions that are taking place away from BART property? These officers have guns, batons, and in some cases Tasers and pepper spray. They could have easily ensured public safety by beefing up patrols at Fruitvale, Lake Merritt and 12th Street stations. Yet BART chose to close 3 stations due to violence that occurred outside of the BART system. How pathetic.
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 2:45pm
I can tell you were not there and didn't see the footage..
The protestors blocked the gates and prevented people from using them. The protestors were peaceful (except for a few).
Since the entrance was blocked by protestors BART stopped stopping trains..
Had the protestors not blocked (closed) the entrance, fruitvale would have stayed open.. The protestors could have moved away from the faregates..
BART got the station back open as soon as the protest moved on and the protestors stoped being against the entrance.
As for the other stations, well, angry violent mob heading my way... Common Sense would tell you to close before they get there. Duh..
Where did you get your information? Believing the media again without checking facts or being there in person?
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 6:25pm
First of all, if you care to direct me to any source of information that contradicts what I've said, then by all means, please do so. I will happily review any video or article.
Regarding the blocking of the fare gates... BART must have a very ineffective police force if they are unable to prevent people who were participating in a publicly announced protest, from blocking the gates for more than just a few minutes. Surely the BPD knew about the protest and placed several additional officers on duty at Fruitvale station in advance.
As per your claim about common sense and an angry mob... perhaps you expect public transit agencies to suspend service to a station or series of stops every time there's a protest which involves crimes against property, but I do not. Let the local cops handle the situation. If I were getting off at 12th Street station and began to witness the destruction of property that happened yesterday, I'd have grabbed my camera, shot some footage, then gone home and uploaded it on Youtube. On the contrary, I would not run away with my tail between my legs nor want my destination station closed as a result.
There is a big difference between violence directed towards people and violence directed towards property. KTVU reports that one person was charged with assaulting a police officer, which is one of the most commonly trumped up charges in the book. A person may have been charged with said offense, but I don't believe for a second that it happened. Show me a statement from the alleged victim & pictures of his injuries, and then maybe you've got something.
So no, I do not simply accept what is reported in the press. I apply my own critical thinking skills and come to my own conclusions.
You seem to indicate that you were there. Did you shoot any video? If so, lets see it.
You seem to indicate that I am uninformed. Well, direct me to some reliable press reports.
For the record, I was not there, but I did watch multiple videos of the incident, and they do not confirm your story. So what verification of your version of the story are you offering?
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 7:53pm
Well I was not there.. I'm smart enough not to go to things like that. For the obvious reasons. I know 2 protesters and 1 BART employee that was there.. So I had a little bit of opinions and facts..
I was told that the police held back, since they were not really a welcome sight.. I heard BART allowed them without interference to have the protest. Rather than have a situation that could have ended up violent, they chose to not confront those blocking the gates, run the trains past Fruitvale and provide busses for those that needed to get to Fruitvale.
As for closing the station when there was violence around.. It would have been irresponsible for BART to allow me and my wife and kids to end up exiting at a station with a riot going on.. OR if the crowed decided to rush the gates (as they have done recently) and my family was on a train that is now full of an angry mob.
I can also see it as a security issue since 9-11, I can also see BART closing the station so that if something really bad happens the bad guys can't get away.. It would be stupid for BART to provide a mode of transportation to transport an angry mob quickly.
And it seems like your response is the police should handle it.. And, as we see here, some idiots will say excessive force if something happens..
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 8:55am
"There is a big difference between violence directed towards people and violence directed towards property."
Wow. So you're basically saying that people smashing windows and setting things on fire is not, in your book, a good reason to close a BART station?
Large groups of angry people can be dangerous. It's a known sociological fact. All you need are one or two instigators and things go from loud to destructive, and destructive to violent. What if someone tried to come out and defend their property? Would you say that would be stupid? It wouldn't be if property violence was so different.
Here's a little free education for you, I hope you at least glance at it: Collective Behavior: Theories of Crowd Behavior
I'm ignoring your obvious opinion that attacking an officer is no big deal, and that it's part of their job, because I know you won't listen to that anyway. Nobody should have to put up with being smacked around on the job, regardless of what that job is.
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 10:32am
would it be wrong of BART to drop unknowing passengers into the middle of a riot and drive away?
before you answer, lets turn (twist) the tables a bit...
what if BART dropped off a train load of black passengers at a station knowing there was a full on Klan rally going on at the enterance? Would you sue BART if you got hurt based on their inaction ?
now lets unturn (untwist) the tables a bit...
should BART drop people off into known dangerous situations ?
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 10:55am
evil pete, you are correct. however, the fruitvale people ultimately need to get to their station. whether they are dumped into the hornets nest by bus or train, what is the difference? in this case, the difference was that the protesters were blocking the fare gates, so doing an end around with a bus seemed like a good idea.
i think the appropriate response would have been to a) leave the station open and b) forcefully remove the protestors and arrest them for false imprisonment of the exiting passengers. if you want to protest, fine. but don't block innocent passengers from exiting and don't break windows at an innocent nail salon. morons.
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 11:20am
I believe your solution would have ended up with violent results, at that time everyone was hoping for a peacefull protest.
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 11:31am
i agree that some people would have gotten violent. but once half of the crowd is face down in zip tie cuffs, people start to get the point. as you said in your other post: 'zero tolerance for troublemakers." protests are one thing, but inconveniencing innocent bystanders is something totally different. people that do that are "troublemakers" in my book. if you want to protest bart police, protest bart police. don't make innocent commuters suffer. do people really think that protesting at one station, or even all stations is going to make the investigation go faster or have a different outcome?
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 11:14am
LOL and sad you had to play the a race card to get them to understand.. I don't play race card sine i am mixed, but GHETTO is the actions, look, and the way they talk. It has nothing to do with poor or color.. I know lots of very poor uneducated people that are better, nicer people than most.
But actually, that would not be that bad.. Imagine a poor uneducated violent ethnic group getting dropped off at a clan rally (which i believe is full of uneducated ethnic peeps.).. They can knock each other out..
normal non violent ethnic groups would have the intelligence to not participate.
I think we should take Texas lead and everyone should have guns.. Imagine the "iron triangle" where everyone had a gun. There would either be no violence, or they will shoot each other and get a twofer one deal..
The violence may go down, unless they are not as smart as Texas.
i'm done amusing myself, I honestly believe the police allow way to much.. They talk police brutality, I would have the police cite if they see someone spit (for any idiots out there, it is a crime to spit on the ground). Zero tolerance for troublemakers, make it safe for families.
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 12:11pm
I apologize if playing a race card offended you, I just wanted to make a point and felt a extreme example would open a few eyes.
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 2:25pm
I think we should take Texas lead and everyone should have guns.
Then perhaps you ought to move to Texas, & kick it with the W. I'm sure you'd feel right at home :)
Zero tolerance for troublemakers, make it safe for families.
Gee, how intellectual. What about individuals? Do they have the right to be safe also, or are you just one of those people who attempt to justify any government policy by saying things like "We need to make America safe for families."
Why don't we invade another country or two. Surely that will make America and the world a safer place as well.
Fri, 01/09/2009 - 2:16pm
So you're basically saying that people smashing windows and setting things on fire is not, in your book, a good reason to close a BART station?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
In the real world, one can just walk away from the crowd. Or do you believe that the crow would attack someone for simply exiting a BART station?
Here's a little free education for you
I went to Cal, thank you. You can keep your "educational" links to yourself.
I'm ignoring your obvious opinion that attacking an officer is no big deal, and that it's part of their job, because I know you won't listen to that anyway.
I said nothing of the sort, and unless you can't read, you all ready knew that, and simply chose to blatantly misrepresent my statement.
What if someone tried to come out and defend their property? Would you say that would be stupid? It wouldn't be if property violence was so different.
Huh? Your question is very convoluted. It depends on the situation and what you mean by "defending their property." Besides, as another member pointed out, people need to get to the destination no matter what. So if BART closes 12th street station, and someone walks from 19th street to 12th street due to the closure, wouldn't they still encounter the protesters (because of course, it's impossible to observe that a bad scene is in progress and simply walk the other way)?
Nobody should have to put up with being smacked around on the job, regardless of what that job is.
I agree, unless that is their job to begin with (e.g., a professional boxer).
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 2:00pm
It depends on the behavior of the crowd. I think it would be safer for the agency who is being protested to protect their passengers and to avoid any incidents that could turn even uglier.
If the station had not closed, for example, and the protesters decided to halt service by standing in the tracks of a BART train, don't you think that could create a huge liability for the system? What if protesters decided to crowd the platform, and one fell into the tracks of an oncoming train?
By closing the station, BART was protecting itself, its passengers, and the protesters themselves. I used to be a transit dispatcher and supervisor, and we would routinely divert and cancel service when we were notified of protesters, simply because a bus is many many tons and a misplaced protester could easily be hurt or killed by accident. The theory doesn't change just because the vehicles are fixed-route and the stations are, well, stationary. It's better to cancel service and inconvenience your passengers than to continue service and run the risk of major injuries or even fatalities.
It's easy to second-guess the organization's actions now, especially from the sidelines not being at all involved with transit operations.
Thu, 01/08/2009 - 3:38pm
I was gonna respond masters, but you got it covered.
Thanks for being one of the few in here right now that have the logic to think clearly.