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do you support the pending BART strike?

18% (7 votes)
82% (31 votes)
Total votes: 38

why would you delete my

why would you delete my account?

why are we not allowed to speak out against the union?

we the riders deserve a voice!

TreoBART's picture

Oh, I'm sorry Master Chief,

Oh, I'm sorry Master Chief, are you forgetting the email addresses to all your accounts?

what? i tried to log in and


i tried to log in and it said i was blocked and my poll was gone?

So many sock puppets, so

So many sock puppets, so little time, so few mods to block their accounts.

I like this website but its potential for any influence on the current labor negotiations is nil. The riding public does not get to vote on the contracts so even if everybody who rides BART that uses the internet had BARTRAGE as their home page it wouldn't matter. I don't know what the traffic is here but minus the sock puppets of the last 9 weeks, it is not likely to be significant in the grander scheme that is BART public relations.

I'm amazed that somebody would put so much time into attempting to disrupt it with a blizzard of repetitive anti union sentiment that is largely uninformed of the total situation.

All this talk of firing strikers is based on complete ignorance of labor law. When law prohibits a union from striking, you can fire them if they strike. This is what happened when Ronald Reagan fired the air traffic controllers. ATU, SEIU and AFSCME are not legally prohibited from striking so you can't just fire them.

There are federal labor laws and state labor laws covering various aspects of unions and strikes. As far as California labor law is concerned, I don't know if BART is legally allowed to hire replacement workers during a strike. However, in many cases once the strike is over, the replacement workers must relinquish their jobs to the returning strikers.

I can fully sympathize with the tension and anxiety of a pending strike from the viewpoint of the BART riders. However, one of the finer points of life that helps prevent you from blowing a gasket, having a heart attack and going to an early grave is to have a complete understanding of the things that tend to piss you off.

You all do yourselves a big disservice by allowing your mind to be polluted by the Linton Johnsons of the world. Do some of your own research into BART's finances before you take BART management's word for the unions being to blame for a considerable portion of their budget deficits.

You will find that you indeed have a right to be pissed off at BART but that a considerable portion of your ire should be rightfully directed at the management and the board of directors.

Find out what little there is available to know about the failed AATC program where the General Electric Company is being sued by BART for walking away from an $80 million+ capital program that was supposed to have greatly improved the system throughput by now.

See if there is any further press coverage of the recently discovered "bad welds" in the walkways that were built for the West Dublin station. Does BART ever end up paying more when something like that happens? Uhh, yeah, sometimes they do.

What the employees say about the BAP timekeeping project is true. It became a debacle.

There is nothing wrong with being pissed off at what goes on in the world but the biggest favor you can do to yourself is to know exactly what you are pissed off at and why. In the case of the current labor negotiations you are allowing yourself to be a victim of propaganda if you think all of your anger and frustration should be directed at the unions.

why do you assume that every

why do you assume that every one who does not agree with you is a union shill?
why assume that all new users are union shills?

people are talking more about bart than ever because of this foolish strike

normal people who ride the bart system every day who are fed up and sick and tired

we want for our voices to be heard, for people to know about our rage about bart!

isnt that the whole point of this site anyway??

and anyway the union reps

and anyway the union reps have said that the sticking point is that the management wants to eliminate "wasteful work rules" that the union wants to keep but they are really dumb rules anyway.

go look up the contract offer. the rules the management wants to get rid of are stupid and should not have been there in the first place.

to hold the bay area hostage over this is just mean spirited.

TreoBART's picture

nothing to see here. move

nothing to see here. move along.

Yeah, I'll be glad when this

Yeah, I'll be glad when this is all over with.

Lately, BARTRAGE has come to resemble a kiddie daycare center at an asylum.

stop acting like every one

stop acting like every one who does not agree with you is stupid

I don't need to know all of

I don't need to know all of the finer points of BART's budget in order to have an opinion about what is currently public knowledge about the union negotiations and ridiculous behavior on the part of union leadership. I'm a member of a union and we just completed our negotiations. I happen to read the newspaper and listen to the radio and was fully aware of the economic situation when we went into negotiations which is why we never considered for a moment that RAISES and additional benefits were valid positions to negotiate. I'm pissed that union membership and leadership couldn't fathom that in this economy (regardless of the rest of BART's budget matters) that they would HAVE to bear a part of the burden to balance the budget. I am incensed that Station Agents and Train Operators are making more than many highly educated and harder working Californians and yet are appalled that they aren't getting raises. NOBODY is gettng raises right now, so suck it up and get with the program and stop whining like children who haven't gotten the toy they wanted for Christmas. Be happy you HAVE a Christmas.

Quiet please. Because we all

Quiet please.

Because we all know that if your union asked for a raise and got it, we would not be hearing a PEEP out of you.

Uh, I'll speak when I please

Uh, I'll speak when I please and in case you can't read, we didn't ASK for a raise because we knew we'd lose all credibility in the negotiations to ask for raises in an economy like we currently have. We understood (as apparently the other two unions who've already settled their contract with BART understood) that we either got raises and laid people off, or we made concessions, which meant our salaries are frozen until things get better. We're well compensated, as are the TO and Station Agents. Tell your sad story to the State employees who have 12 furloghs a year, not 3 floating holidays and potential raises.

But again. If you received a

But again. If you received a raise, you wouldn't be in here complaining. You'd be happy as a lark.
Sidestep the truth if you want.

And like I've stated plenty of times already. When the economy was on fire, these state employees and others basically laughed at us. We were simple, blue collar grunts. Were they appalled when they were receiving huge bonuses, and raises, and we were getting basically nothing? Where was the outrage and resentment then? As long as we kept those trains moving, people could care less about us. Now their situation resembles a rubber raft with three holes in it, and ours is rock solid, there's outrage and resentment now.

Instead of trying to get more rights for themselves, more security, better pay and benefits in their own job, they want to take these things away from others so that everyone is at the same, low, miserable level as they are.

"I have to furlough days, they should too"
"I have to pay a bunch of money for my pension, they should too!"
"I have to pay a bunch of money for my benefits, they should too!"
"My job just cut my pay, theirs should be cut too!"
"We didn't ask for a raise! How can they?"
"I don't get overtime. The shouldn't be able to work OT either!"
"I just got laid off! Fire those stupid lazy bums so I can have their job and make all that money!"
"My car got wrecked! How dare you have a nice car when I don't? Wreck yours too and share the pain!"

Crabs in a barrel.

Even if I had gotten a raise,

Even if I had gotten a raise, I'd still be aghast at the gall of BART employees striking right now. Facts are facts, this is a down economy, the work rules are ridiculous, the fact that there are 15 full time employees doing Union business rather than actually providing a service to BART customers, it's all bs. You want us to care about you when there was a boom? Then do something other than snarl at people when they ask for assistance. Do your job, providing a service and being helpful rather than bitter nasty pieces of work, then we'd care more. If you don't care about your job, why the hell should anyone else?

Speak to those that DON'T

Speak to those that DON'T care about their jobs.

Stop lumping EVERY BART employee in the same category.

It's old.

you lump together everyone

you lump together everyone that is against the bart workers and that is an even bigger and more diverse group

sorry but that is a way worse generalization

You said it yourself, no

You said it yourself, no matter what, you're keeping your job. Nobobdy gets laid off, nobody has to be accountable for their work or their performance. So maybe you do a great job. Great. But why should you when the guy who does a crappy job gets paid the same as you do, gets the same benefits and has the same job security? That's the problem. People who do a good job eventually realize that other than the satisfaction of doing a good job, there's no benefit to them whatsoever. So unions simply cater to the lowest common denominator. If you just breathe and show up for work, then you get paid. THAT is the source of resentment, not the fact that you get your CalPERs paid for. The fact that crappy people can't get fired, and that they have no incentive to do a good job, so on the whole a lot of them don't. Yes, it's a generalization. So get rid of stupid work-rules that reinforce this behavior, get people to be held accountable for their job, give them raises when they do a GOOD job, not just show up for work, THEN you'll get the general public behind the workers and supporting a justifiable strike.

people hate bart employees

people hate bart employees during good times and bad because most of the employees they deal with (station agents) are rude and bad at their jobs

Time to Replace One can

Time to Replace

One can understand why our jobs have been going more and more to non American workers. If BART could, they
would hire cheap Asian Indian labor like my company is doing and eliminate American jobs.

Unions across the country are a dying breed at their own hand, GM and other automakers are a perfect example of what unions have done to American manufacturer, now they are all suffering and additional those who are related in work.

We have 11 million people out of work. The BART workers are the highest paid transportation workers in America. Our transportation costs to get to work is also the highest due to labor costs. Remember BART operators DO NOT RUN THE TRAINS, they are totally operated by BART control center at the Lake Merritt station center. The most they do is hold open the door for running riders to get in THAT'S IT!

When you have BART janitors making more money than a teacher at $96,000 a year in wages and benefits, there is something wrong. These union people should be grateful for having the current salary and benefits.

To say you need one person to remove the back seat cover on the train and you have to use another to remove the seat is utterly ridicouls. Just like a janitor who cleans on the inside can clean on the outside.

As hard as it will be on all of us, I hope they are out for 60 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Electronic Tech's picture

I know your frustration and I

I know your frustration and I can't say I agree with ATU's strike. That is one of the reasons we settled. You have to pick and choose your battles, and we agreed that now is not the time.

I just want to clarify something though. While a seatback change seems simple on the surface (2 screws and it comes out) that is not the case. For one it is an extreemely tight fit. They have an aluminum backing and are easily bent during shipping, so you have to fight to get the back in and the headrest in the slot behind the seat. And the aisle seats have "grab handles" on them that have to come off in order to remove the seatback. Again, seems simple. Not so, the grab handles are the worst of all. They have a hex head screw which almost always strips out. And after you get the screw out you have to beat on the grab handle with a hammer to get it out. A mechanic who knows how to deal with stripped screws, and can get it out without damaging the rest of the seat, can remove and repair a seatback in a reasonable ammount of time. Now a utility worker, who may or may not have these skills because of thier job experience, could take a long time and further damage the seat.

But even with all that, the mechanics still gave up that work in the contract we rattified. Some of them even see it as more job security because now they will have to repair the seats that utility workers inadvertently damage.

My hope is that they give the utilities the proper training and it's all rainbows and flowers. But BART has a history of implementing ideas without fully being prepared.

well said, but when you say

well said, but when you say "Cheap Asian Labor" it sounds a bit racist. Americans are as hard working as workers from other countries like India, china etc. The difference is Union protection. Once a worker gets comfortable to the fact that whether or not he makes a mistake, whether or not he works hard, etc he cannot be fired, this is when productivity goes down the drain. This is what happened to American auto companies and this is what is happening to BART. There is a lot of waste in workforce which has to be woken up from its deep slumber, so that they can see the reality now.

thesilentj's picture

I cant argue with the "safe

I cant argue with the "safe worker becomes less productive" statement...I see it A LOT buuut....the AUTO thing is SLIGHTLY flawed...The unions are partly to blame ...but not COMPLETELY.
The big boys(management) kept Oking the BIG cars ..and other BAD calls(sounds familiar...where is that from?) and the consumer said NOPE when the gas prices went to $4+ a gallon.
I KNOW they were in trouble before BUT ...the upper crusts did NOTHING but ride the boat all the way to the bottom ...then got the golden parachute(ok...ship analogies didn't work for that ) and the workers got ..the blame and the pink slip.

Hell, if I knew I had a HUGE check , cushy perks and etc waiting NO MATTER what...Id be HAPPY to run a FEW BIG American companies into the ground.

A.T.'s picture

"These union people should be

"These union people should be grateful for having the current salary and benefits."

Very much agreed. And for those who are grateful and doing their jobs to the fullest ability, Kudos. I would love to be a Train Operator in BART. It was my dream as a kid and still is. It really wouldn't even be considered a job, but more like my hobby. Getting paid a decent rate and benefits along with it. I can't complain about that.

"Remember BART operators DO NOT RUN THE TRAINS, they are totally operated by BART control center at the Lake Merritt station center. The most they do is hold open the door for running riders to get in THAT'S IT!"

True, but please keep in mind that the Train Operators are also a communication link between us riders, Operations control center, and dispatch in case of an emergency. Anything that goes wrong with the train, they have the ability to do something about it. So for the Train Operators that are serious about their job. Kudos to you guys. See you on the rails. ^_^