Delay At Montgomery Today - 6PM - Off the platform
A Fremont bound train arrived Montgomery but stopped short. The operator must have been in manual mode and she stopped with half of the door of the last car (the door I boarded from) off the platform (half of the door was passed the end gate). A BART tech witnessed it all happen from inside the train in the last car and ratted her out and the train was put out of service at Embarcadero causing a cluster fuck and delay. Just out of curiousity, what ended up happening to the train since it was sitting there without an operator, and any idea if the operator will be fired or suspended? While she might have screwed up, it didn't seem like a safety hazard and it certainly didn't seen necessary to put the train out of service and cause the delay. Thanks BART.
The train was not sitting
The train was not sitting there without an operator. The train was taken out of service, and ran to Hayward yard.
It's kinda irrelevant wether the operator gets fired or suspended. Just know he/she will be dealt with.
Lastly, the procedure for opening doors outside the platform is mandated by PUC, and every rail transit system in the United States must adhere to that.
Ad you say it didn't seem like a safety hazard? A open door outside the platform? Think about what you're saying. What if someone, especially a child or an elderly individual wasn't paying attention and stepped out that door and there was no platform there? What if the same situation occured at an elevated station, and someone stepped out of the door and fell 60 feet to their death? Still doesn't seem like a safety hazard?
That's right, I forgot. Only thing you were concerned with was getting inconveinienced by the delay.
Question for BART
Question for BART techs/operators: Isn't there proximity sensors at each of the doors at platform level to prevent the door from opening if the sensor does not detect the platform?
a couple weeks ago our train
a couple weeks ago our train overshot the platform by a carlength at walnut creek. the TO had to enter the first car and manually lock the doors, then go back to the cab and open the other doors. so based on that, my guess would be no.
Yeah, I know about the manual
Yeah, I know about the manual lockout procedure for overruns. I may be wrong, but my understanding was in order for any train doors to open, those that overshoot (or undershoot as in the case of the original post) the platform have to be locked out before the rest will be allowed to open (a redundant safety mechanism, which is good). It would seem to me to be a bit of an oversight if the doors are not interlocked to something that can tell if that particular door is safely at the platform or not.
Screw that. If I'm in my
Screw that. If I'm in my station more than five minutes and the doors aren't open I'm going to pop the emergency door release and exit the train rather than sit there like an imbecile.
There's no mechanism that
There's no mechanism that detects the presence of the platform for an individual set of doors to be able to open. The proximity sensor that you may hear the mainline techs talking about is a redundant door leaf sensor that along with a limit switch, LS1, in the door operator, determines if an individual door leaf is closed or not. It doesn't detect the presence of the platform.
The train must be entirely within the limits of the platform for the doors to open in automatic. This detection is done through the ATO system.
The doors can be opened outside the platform and/or on the wrong side in yard manual as long as the train is stopped. The burden of safe operation in this case is entirely on the operator.
Thanks for the clarification.
Thanks for the clarification. Just one other question: looking at the train doors from outside, below and to the right on the car body there is a gray rectangular sensor at every set of doors. Do you know what these are for?
That's an RFID tag that
That's an RFID tag that contains the car number and which end it's mounted on, X or Y. X or Y is important to know for an A2 or C car because the operator's cab is at the Y end.
The application of these tags and the installation of the readers was still in progress when I left. I don't know the current status of that program.
When I went to work at BART 27 years ago, the cars had an "ACI label" (similar to a bar code) at each end that was used in an automatic car identification system. The OEM of the ACI system stopped supporting it and it was eventually phased out for a newer bar code reader system that I don't think ever worked reliably.
For many years after the original ACI system became defunct, the makeup of each train had to be entered manually by the yard tower operators into the MARIS computer system which tracks train usage and maintenance data.
Then came the RFID tags for which maybe somebody like Lucifer or Electronic Tech could give us an update on whether it is functional or not?
There are readers through out
There are readers through out the system, although some are not functioning. For example, coming out of Richmond Yard, there is a reader that will scan those ACI labels and provide car information to yards, TM Zones and maintenance. I believe Lake Merritt has a functioning one as well.
I don't know about ACI, but
I don't know about ACI, but the RFID tag system is up and running, we get squawks for bad RFID tags and have to program new tags and install them every once in a while.
But why was the entire train
But why was the entire train taken out of service for this? Can the train just be repositioned and get on with normal service? What would cause the train to overrun the platform? What about automatic train control?
It could have been taken out
It could have been taken out of service for a variety of reasons. Since a tech was reportedly on board the train at the time of the incident, there may have been other mechanical issues to take the train out of service.
Trains overrun platforms on a regular basis. If you look at the coverboards on the third-rail in any station, you'll notice a black strip of material that lays on top that runs the entire length of the platform. That is an antenna so that the train can pickup its exact location in the station and stop where it should (hopefully so that the doors match up with the black tiles). If there is a problem with this antenna, the train doesn't know where it is in the station, doesn't know where precisely to stop, and runs through the station unless the operator can manually stop the train in time before cars go beyond the platform.
The fact that the operator brought the train into the station in manual mode indicates an issue with the automatic train control, so in manual mode the operator will usually do a manual (no coverboard antenna to help with positioning) 10-car stop (even if it is shorter than a 10-car consist) to make sure all cars are in the platform. I guess in this case the operator didn't pull all the way up to the 10-car marker, leaving a set of doors on the last car off the platform.
As was mentioned previous, we
As was mentioned previous, we are mandated by the CPUC when it comes to some of the rules we must adhere to at BART. When it comes to a train that repositions at a station platform, regardless of train length, the train operator must pull the train to the 10-car marker before opening the doors, which is also done in a manual mode. This is all for safety.
In a run through situation, it is usually an antenna problem at the station, on the train, both or another wayside problem that seems somewhat common during revenue hours. If an operator is on the ball, they can usually catch a run through situation, depress the stop button and reposition the train in manual mode. But if the operator does not catch it in time and the train happens to be one full car out, then the operator must lock out the doors on the platform side before doing a manual door cycle. Sometimes, operators will be told to run through the station, if it will impact operations, for example morning of afternoon commute downtown.
Safety is STILL the main concern though when it comes to an incident where the doors open when the train is not fully berthed at a platform.
I'm kinda confused. I was in
I'm kinda confused. I was in Montgomery a little after 6 PM and did not notice any delay of any kind yesterday.
That's good, shows you how
That's good, shows you how little the system was impacted by this incident.