Submitted by transit troublemaker on Fri, 02/05/2010 - 10:24am.
For a comparison, R 32 class NYC subway cars delivered in 1964,65 are still running off the miles. And remember, they do many more miles per day than any BART cars. They had general overhaul work some years back as more recently most BART vars did. As to components, yes some are obsolete, but newer sub assemblies can be used.
Submitted by bluehale on Fri, 02/05/2010 - 7:41pm.
Going through the process of ordering new cars is not simply a snap of the fingers. Also BART uses a different gauge than most other subways/railroads for reasons I won't go into. So BART cars have to be more custom made than cars for the NYC subway. Though please, scrap the car designs where you force a portion of the passengers to stand and lean against backrests in the middle of the car. That won't work. I think the reason why new cars won't roll out until 2024 because unlike other subway systems which replace their train cars over time, BART is replacing all the cars at the same time which costs a lot of dough so you need a few years to raise all of that.
Submitted by transit troublemaker on Fri, 02/05/2010 - 10:28pm.
Yes, I am well aware that the guage is non standard. As to replacing the entire fleet at once--not very practical. Even if the vendor worked three shifts, 700 cars are a long production run,delivery is going to be spread over several years. While particular NYC designs cannot be easily adapted, the process of specing a single design and ordering from competing vendors is worth emulating.
Submitted by bluehale on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 9:18pm.
To add onto this. Last Friday I was at Powell Station during the middle of Rush Hour. I noticed when a Pittsburg Bay Point train pulled into the station, the lead car's doors were broken. It looked like the problem had been known for a while because there were stickers pasted onto the doors saying the doors were broken and passengers should board on other cars. Is it happening more often that cars with broken doors are being used during rush hour or was that just a rarity?
Submitted by Officer Jo-Jo on Tue, 02/09/2010 - 1:26am.
Now I am no expert when it comes to BART trains, but I have seen train operators lock out train doors in order to keep the train moving. They peel and paste the stickers at that time. I can't imagine BART sending out a train car from the yard with the doors locked out. My guess is there must have been a problem prior to you boarding. I have also seen technicians fix the problem while the train is in service and the doors were unlocked a few stations later.
They're not really buying them all at once, but they want to replace the whole fleet, it won't happen all at once, they'll get 2-4 cars a month, and the new cars will not be compatible with the old ones, so there will be trains made up of all new cars running, and trains made of all old cars running, after they get 4-5 trains in the system they will start recycling the old cars, it will take well over 5 years to replace the whole fleet.
The gauge isn't an issue really, the cars will be built to BART specs, so they will be wide gauge, it doesn't cost any more to build them that way, but they have to be built for it from the beginning you can't just change the gauge of some other design and expect it to work out.
How would they make a deal with India?
They will be all new systems except for the ATO systems that have to be the same to be compatible with the trackside equipment.
For a comparison, R 32 class
For a comparison, R 32 class NYC subway cars delivered in 1964,65 are still running off the miles. And remember, they do many more miles per day than any BART cars. They had general overhaul work some years back as more recently most BART vars did. As to components, yes some are obsolete, but newer sub assemblies can be used.
Going through the process of
Going through the process of ordering new cars is not simply a snap of the fingers. Also BART uses a different gauge than most other subways/railroads for reasons I won't go into. So BART cars have to be more custom made than cars for the NYC subway. Though please, scrap the car designs where you force a portion of the passengers to stand and lean against backrests in the middle of the car. That won't work. I think the reason why new cars won't roll out until 2024 because unlike other subway systems which replace their train cars over time, BART is replacing all the cars at the same time which costs a lot of dough so you need a few years to raise all of that.
Yes, I am well aware that the
Yes, I am well aware that the guage is non standard. As to replacing the entire fleet at once--not very practical. Even if the vendor worked three shifts, 700 cars are a long production run,delivery is going to be spread over several years. While particular NYC designs cannot be easily adapted, the process of specing a single design and ordering from competing vendors is worth emulating.
To add onto this. Last Friday
To add onto this. Last Friday I was at Powell Station during the middle of Rush Hour. I noticed when a Pittsburg Bay Point train pulled into the station, the lead car's doors were broken. It looked like the problem had been known for a while because there were stickers pasted onto the doors saying the doors were broken and passengers should board on other cars. Is it happening more often that cars with broken doors are being used during rush hour or was that just a rarity?
Now I am no expert when it
Now I am no expert when it comes to BART trains, but I have seen train operators lock out train doors in order to keep the train moving. They peel and paste the stickers at that time. I can't imagine BART sending out a train car from the yard with the doors locked out. My guess is there must have been a problem prior to you boarding. I have also seen technicians fix the problem while the train is in service and the doors were unlocked a few stations later.
New cars by 2024, a mystery
New cars by 2024, a mystery indeed. Three questions:
Why does BART insist buying all the rolling stock at once?
If the gauge is such an issue, couldn't we combine car orders with India's rail agency? Possible savings?
I assume the new cars will have upgraded components and parts, is that correct?
They're not really buying
They're not really buying them all at once, but they want to replace the whole fleet, it won't happen all at once, they'll get 2-4 cars a month, and the new cars will not be compatible with the old ones, so there will be trains made up of all new cars running, and trains made of all old cars running, after they get 4-5 trains in the system they will start recycling the old cars, it will take well over 5 years to replace the whole fleet.
The gauge isn't an issue really, the cars will be built to BART specs, so they will be wide gauge, it doesn't cost any more to build them that way, but they have to be built for it from the beginning you can't just change the gauge of some other design and expect it to work out.
How would they make a deal with India?
They will be all new systems except for the ATO systems that have to be the same to be compatible with the trackside equipment.