Fare evasion citation
Today I was given a citation for fare evasion. I had taken the elevator up from the Embarcadero station because I had my bike and it was super busy, and didn't even realize that I didn't have to swipe my clipper card to exit. I was in a hurry to get to work so as I turned up the stairs to the streets and officer called for me to stop. I didn't know I had done anything wrong so I stopped to see what the matter was. He then begins asking me a serious of questions in a very pressing tone leaving me little to no time to explain myself before writing me a ticket. I tried to tell him that I had just forgotten, and I even showed him my clipper card and offered to go swipe it out (literally only a few minutes after I had first exited through the elevator) and even pay the "Excursion" fee they make you pay if you ever lose your ticket. He simply ignored everything I said and cited me for fare evasion.
Does anyone know how much the ticket is? Is it worth my time to fight it? If it's only $50 or so I'd rather just pay it than have to deal with taking a day off to sit in court, but I've heard that they can be hundreds of dollars.
Also, if I were to fight it is there any likely hood of it being dismissed? I truly feel like I did nothing wrong, especially since I offered to go swipe my card out. I never even left the bart station, so how is it fare evasion???
If you're in a hurry to get
If you're in a hurry to get to work, pay the fine.
The threshold to determine fare evasion is at the fare gate. Bypassing same constitutes fare evasion. Exiting the elevator and not proceeding directly to the fare gates to "process out" is fare evasion.
At least he didn't shoot you.
At least he didn't shoot you.
Well, he's a
Well, he's a "lawabidingcitizen" and not a felon thug like Oscar Grant, so he doesn't have to worry about that.
Damn I just got one of those
Damn I just got one of those tonight as well. I got off in Walnut Creek, where they have cleverly designed the elevators to let you off OUTSIDE of the fare gates. I had my bike, and it was like 38 degrees tonite. So I start pedaling away at breakneck speed after not swiping my ticket. I was rushing not to escape from authorities, but just because it was cold. Little did I know a BART cop was following me the whole time. He rolled up behind me WITHOUT using his siren, and cut me off, forcing me to stop. He was like 6 inches from my bike with his car. He was totally aggressive and an real A-Hole. Anyways, I guess I'm gonna argue this one in court but they've heard it all before. I would like to know what the fine's gonna be for 1st offense.
Did nothing wrong?? You didnt
Did nothing wrong?? You didnt swipe, and didnt even TRY to swipe to exit, which is what pays your fare for the trip, you have a clipper card, so you obviously are aware of the process which you ignored.. You cant tell a cop after getting pulled over for speeding that you forgot to go the speed limit..I think the fact that you were in a hurry is what jacked you up.. Yeah and offering to do the right thing AFTERWARDS aint gunna fly..
The fine differs county to county, I know of someone that got cited in San Mateo on Caltrain for fare evation, there were like 3 different codes broken totaling like around 600 bux... I know SF is a little different
I've never understood why
I've never understood why BART can't put a faregate, or now, a Clipper sensor, at the elevators that deposit you outside of the paid areas? The Clipper sensor would be a cinch. I've never "evaded" a fare, but I have gotten off the elevators, started to leave, and then doubled back because I realized I hadn't swiped my exit. That second swipe is not usually the first thing on people's mind - getting to home or work is.
They could do that, or, as I
They could do that, or, as I suggested to BART a year or so ago, move an accessible fare gate in front of elevators that span the free and paid areas. People who would need the accessible fare gate (wheelchair users, those with strollers, carts, luggage, bikes, etc.) are also the ones who would most likely be using the elevator.
There is a fare gate right
There is a fare gate right next to the elevators at Walnut Creek BART, directly in front of the police office. There really isn't much of an excuse for that particular station. Coliseum also has a fare gate near the elevator, by the hot dog vendor, but isn't quite as obvious as Walnut Creek I suppose. Civic Center I can't speak to, since I haven't been there in a long time. BART is slooooooowly supposed to be moving elevators and fare gates around to avoid this issue, like the elevator at Lake Merritt, which is now inside the paid area. But sadly, as with any large agency (and especially BART), things move at a glacial pace.
BART should do like the some
BART should do like the some hotels. You need to swipe your BART ticket or tap your clipper to activate the elevator. Would probably be cheaper than moving an elevator into the paid area.
Biggest problem with all this
Biggest problem with all this that is people coming down the elevator before they have purchased a ticket. The whole point is to be accessible to people who can't use the stairs. BART would have to install ticket machines next to every elevator.
It seems like a no-brainer to
It seems like a no-brainer to put a Clipper sensor next to the elevators. It would be an inexpensive solution and a real time saver. But then again, BART isn't known for using common sense and logic to solve problems.
Unfortunately I think you're
Unfortunately I think you're out of luck. A few years ago I witnessed a guy who tried to walk out of the gate. Police spotted him, he turned the other way and was trapped. He showed him his ticket but the cops started writing a ticket anyway.
There's probably no way to know if you forgot or not and there are SO MANY PEOPLE who jump the gates, walk out of the emergency gates, once saw a guy actually climb and leap over the fence at Union City. It sucks, but I think it's not worth the hassle.
I did that once at Coliseum.
I did that once at Coliseum. I usually use the stairs when exiting, but this time I used the elevator. Totally forgot to tap out. I didn't notice until I tried to enter at the end of the day. Cost me an excursion fair, but luckily no fine. I don't think they really care at Coliseum because I see fair evasion all the time.
Those elevators outside the paid area are just plain dumb.
I think this is the first
I think this is the first time in the history of BartRAGE anyone has complained about BART PD giving out fare evasion citations. Usually it's people complaining about fare evaders never being ticketed.
My take on this is it is the same deal as if you "accidentally" run a stop sign. You ran the stop sign. You did it right in front of a cop. You got a ticket.
Just because you didn't mean to run the stop sign and you didn't hit anyone doesn't give you a pass. I wouldn't waste my time in court. "I did it, but not on purpose" in legal terms means "guilty".
Nice to hear that a POS bike
Nice to hear that a POS bike rider gut busted...I've wondered how many of these guys manage to sneak by because they're pushing
a rolling coathanger. As for sniveling about it after the fact, you can shove it up your critical mass.
May I ask for your
May I ask for your description and what lines you ride when? That way I can attempt to avoid you when you have a complete mental breakdown because a person with a bicycle dared to get near you. I'm afraid you will pull out that knife you carry and start stabbing. Your pent up anger is truly amazing. Or maybe its just an Internet tough guy thing.
As far as sneaking by, wouldn't a bicycle make it that much more difficult to evade paying the fare?
(I don't agree with critical mass, and pay my fares)
It has nothing to do with
It has nothing to do with "internet tough guy" anything. It has do with being jostled, bumped,
dirtied and being run down on sidewalks and in crosswalks. My description and locations are
NOYFB. My blade is for physical attackers, not boorish, elitist assholes. A well placed
kick will do just fine.
Am I elitist because I ride a
Am I elitist because I ride a bike?
I don't know you personally
I don't know you personally so it's impossible to say. Many of your fellow cyclists act in a way that implies a superiority, a total
disdain for the rules. When the street has too many cars, these folks opt for the sidewalk, pedestrians be damned. Red lights?
For other people, of course; you're too important and special to take your feet out of those pedals and make a full stop. Is
there a pedestrian in the crosswalk while you're running the red light? To hell with him.. you're so goddamn green and
righteous that he just better get his ass out of the way. You're the sacred cow of places like Berkeley and SF but watch
out for me. I'm sick of your bullshit.
BART is a common carrier. Its
BART is a common carrier. Its fares, if it has any, must be in the "dollars money" of CaGovC 6850 and U.S.Const. 1,10,1. The Federal Reserve Note is NOT dollars money. BART must accept all who tender lawful fare PROVIDED THERE IS A LAWFUL FARE. Without lawful fare BART must accept riders without tender of fare.
For there to be a "fare evasion" there needs to be a
"fare" provided for in the law. I have been unable to find a "fare" provision enacted by the legislature, nor one by BART, nor one by the CPUC.
I will pay $50 to the first person to show me where "fare(s)" are enacted into law.
I entered Bay Fare BART on April 11, 2011 without paying the imaginary "fare". I took the elevator up to the platform and encountered BART Police.
By the time the matter came on for hearing the Court for trial was at the Fremont Hall of Justice. That was Novermber 14, 2011.
I filed a Plea in Abatement because the Court lacks jurisdiction. The Commissioner Boydine Hall failed to require on the record evidence for the Courts' jurisdiction and therefore her Court was and is a Kangaro Court. The "bail" for the citation was 319. When Hall on November 14th in Fremont pronounced judgment the "bail" somehow became 389. When Central Collections contacted me the amount somehow became 424.
LAST WORDS. Before steping down in Fremont I asked Hall, "Is that in Federal Reserve Notes or is that in dollars? She answered "dollars".
At this point Central Collections has billed me for at least "$50" monthly. By law the "$50" is deemed to be in "dollars money". I have responded by declaring that I have no "dollars money". Instead of paying with what no one has today I have tendered a Promissory Note to be paid at such time as lawful dollars money return to circulation! That may be never.
The supposed "fare" evasion law appears to be CaPenC 640(c)(1). Notice that the first sentence is not a sentence but a sentence fragment. Notice that for fare evasion you must both pass a sign concerning "valid fare" and have entered a BART car. In your case you had entered the car but you never passed the sign mentioned at 640(c)(1).
I may be coming to the point where Central Collections crawls back under a rock. They may be going silent.
Julian Swig at jswig@sbcglobal.net
Street lawyers are annoying.
Street lawyers are annoying.
So basically what you're
So basically what you're saying is that all of Bart's fares are illegal because "fare" has not been defined in the statute. Wow-- sounds like an insightful, winning argument. Give me a call when the shuttle lands....
6850 says: 6850. The money
6850 says:
6850. The money of account of this State is the dollar, cent, and
mill. Public accounts and all proceedings in courts shall be kept and
had in conformity with this section.
nothing about "dollars money" that you're ranting about, no restrictions against fed reserve notes.
the US Constitution article 1, section 10.1 says:
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payments of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.
Which has nothing to do with your "dollars money" delusion.
So unless BART is calling people Earl, Duke or Knight it has nothing to do with fares.
California Penal Code 640(c)(1) says:
(c) (1) Evasion of the payment of a fare of the system. For
purposes of this section, fare evasion includes entering an enclosed
area of a public transit facility beyond posted signs prohibiting
entrance without obtaining valid fare, in addition to entering a
transit vehicle without valid fare.
Which means either entering the paid area OR a transit car, not necessarily both. No where does it say that you have to pass a sign, only that you're beyond posted signs.
Any other Bullshit delusions you have that I can stomp on?
Your reading skills are super
Your reading skills are super shitty.
You're reading that list as if each item is compounding, when you should be reading them separately.
Parsed correctly, it should be read like this:
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance or confederation.
No state shall grant letters of marque and reprisal.
No state shall coin money;.
No state shall emit bills of credit.
No state shall make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payments of debts.
No state shall pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.
I'm not agreeing with the guy you're replying to, but trying to refute a shitty argument with an equally shitty reading of the Constitution is stupid.
How does "Parsing" the
How does "Parsing" the constitution that way in any way invalidate what I said? I was not compounding, I was using sarcasm to make a point.
about the constitutionality of FRN's
sounds complicated
sounds complicated
Pardon me as this is going to
Pardon me as this is going to sound dumb.
I just got cited by a BART Police yesterday at the Balboa Park BART Station for Fare Evasion. I gave my correct name and ID number but provided the wrong address. What do to make it the right address?