Get out of the way!

I am sick and tired of faregate hogs and indecisive borders.

A faregate hog is that special someone who waits until it's their turn to go through the gate and then and only then starts digging through purses, backpacks or pockets to find their ticket. Once they find the ticket, they try cramming it into the slot the wrong way or there's something else wrong with it so they keep trying and trying again while the line behind them grows longer and longer. For some reason, faregate hogs only appear at rush hour and during those times when entry or exit has been restricted to a single faregate.

STOP DOING THIS. You fail at using the ticket. Go see the station agent like the faregate keeps tell you to do. Stop making everyone else late!

Indecisive boarders are those people who stroll (not walk) three feet past the train doors, pause, look to the left, look to the right, look to the left again, look to the right again before figuring out which way they're going to go into the rest of the train. Meanwhile, the 20 people in line behind this jerk have to move around him or wait for him to make up his mind. Like faregate hogs, indecisive boarders multiply during rush hour.

STOP DOING THIS. All seats go to all the stations the train stops at, arrive at the same time and look and smell equally disgusting (except for the seats on the ends of the cars, those are worse). If you're doing this because lots of people are standing, guess what that means: THERE ARE NO SEATS FOR YOU, YOU PRECIOUS FREAKING FLOWER! Just move in and deal with it!

There are some days when I wish I could just shove faregate hogs and indecisive boarders out of the way. They'd probably whine about how rude and inconsiderate me doing something like that was, though, and then I'd have to do something worse before choking on the irony.

So I come here to rant instead. :)

You are not alone. I would love to do shove them too and I realize that I don't want to lower my standards. There is a post on this site about Do's and Dont's.

You forgot to mention the idiots who try to jam onto the train before people are able to exit the train. They stand right in the middle of the doorway making it hard to get around them in order to exit the train. It never ceases to amaze me how people can be so unaware of the little things they can do to make boarding and exiting a train so much easier for everyone.

just had that happen-- was standing near the door as train approached station, saw a guy jump in front (not being sure where the train would actually stop).

I am in the habit of holding my hand on the side extension of the door, thus 'blocking' anyone from rushing by me before I exit; homeboy entered, and incidental contact was made (by him), he ranted something and I held ground, replying: "get out of my way!"

hope everyone else boarding the same set of doors gave him the stink eye (like anyone around here would actually *do* anything)

It gave me great pleasure when a young whipper snapper tried to barge his way onto the train by passing me on the left only to be repelled by passengers exiting!

here is what you do with the indecisive boarders: when they are pulling the "should i go left or right" crap, just pick a direction and go around them. for some reason, it seems that as soon as i do this, they pick the same direction as me, which causes a minor collision. i always prepare for the collision by shifting my weight toward them (but only as a precautionary measure so that i don't lose my balance, not to be malicious). since technically they ran into me, it is not my fault. and i have never had anyone confront me. they usually apologize, because in the instant they run into my shoulder they tend to realize they were being an idiot.

All you folks are referring to BART rookies. This happens at the bay bridge on weekends too.

Anyway, the rookies don't know about this site so I doubt you will get any relief from your rant; but I know it feels good to let off steam and get crankyness out.

Faregate hogs also like to stack up their piles of stuff on top of the faregate blocking the place where the ticket exits after running through the faregate so you couldn't go around them to use the gate if you wanted to.

last night on the way home from work, the train doors open and there are two morons, both in their late 30's/early 40's and obviously coming from work, talking to each other while standing right in the doorway. they have their backs turned to the door and don't even budge slightly to allow people to get on the train. this is at montgomery at about 5:00, so there are about 20 people trying to board. i literally had to push one of them across the aisle so that everyone could get in. the strangest thing was that there were quite a few empty seats that they could have been sitting in, so why stand by the door?

Because they don't much care if they inconvenience anyone else. I wonder if they stand in the doorways in other places or just on BART trains? On the highway, these are "kings of the road," you know, the people who go slow in the fast lane, don't signal to change lanes or turn, etc., as if they are above respect and common courtesy toward others.

don't even get me started on the "kings of the road." they make me wish my car was equipped with missle launchers.

HA! Anyway, maybe BART should put signs near the doors telling people not to stand in the doorways just as there should be signs at the esclators and train entrances for people not to cut in line. Train Operators do announce this once in a while, but it should just be common sense.

Signs would be a waste of time and money. BART riders don't READ the signs that are already in place throughout the system.

Of course riders do not obey the signs that direct them not to eat or drink on the trains, and certainly others. On the other hand, signs probably do give some people a clue and as more people follow them the better it is to ride BART. Unfortunately, there are always going to be jerks who think they are above the rules or consideration of others.

It's just like the people on the escalator who don't pay attention to the fact that there are people standing on the right and people walking down on the left --- and then promptly stand on the left. This happened last night and we all had to pass her on the right. A man behind me passed by here and said, "Walk on the left, stand on the right" to which I heard a, "Whatever".

It's not "whatever", Unobservant (or perhaps rude) Woman. Perhaps you were just humiliated by the fact that you didn't notice this earlier and a stranger had to point out your mistake.

Tonight I had the train boarder who wouldn't move into the train in front of me in line. He waited until 5 or 10 people got off, and took one step into the train and literally STOPPED directly in front of me 6 inches into the car. Meanwhile the driver is playing "The doors are closing" song because the exiting people had taken their sweet time to get off. There was plenty of room for him to move into the train but he was a door hogger and wanted his door door spot (not that he was getting off anytime soon). So I try to go around him and a fat lady blocks my way since she hadn't bothered to try preparing to get off as the train was approached the stop like the other people exiting had. I had to step off the train to let fat lady by and stepped on the foot of the guy behind me since he wanted on before the doors closed, also. We were both blocked by door hogger and the fat lady. I finally managed to get on to squash past some people who were blocking lots of free space in the doorway even though there was plenty of space in the interior. They were all standing in the entrance like stupid sheep. Gah, that felt good to rant about the idiots.

I agree, though, the idiot bane of my BART existance (aside from crazy people, homeless people and criminals are):

-Indecisive boarders (they can look for seats as the train pulls up through the windows if they had a clue)
-Doorway rushers (before people have gotten off)
-Doorway blockers who won't let other people on or off
-Gate line cutters
-Inconsiderate cyclists (not all, but the 20% or so of cyclists that are asshats)
-Escalator blockers (especially when they block when you can hear a train approaching, are they lazy and stupid or what?)

It's a good thing I don't have some comic-book-like superpower, otherwise I'd be using for evil against people like these.

Shrapnel's picture

What really sucks is that you can only do something about one of those "problems." Indecisive boarders simply have no courtesy, similar to the doorway blockers and rushers. Gate line cutters just think they're more important than everyone else. So be vocal and say something to them, don't just rant anonymously on a website.

As for "escalator blockers," the point of an escalator is to move you, not to speed up your walk. If you want to go somewhere faster than the escalator moves, I suggest the stairs. Plus, you get about 20 seconds of exercise. Pushing past someone is not just rude, if they slip and fall you've got a lawsuit to worry about.

i think "slower traffic keep right" is pretty common knowlege on a bart escalator. Even if you were born yesterday, don't you think you'd feel strange standing on the left when you see a line of people standing on the right and everyone in front of you on the left is walking away from you? even if i had no clue about bart escalator etiquette, i'd feel strange in that scenario and either move over or start walking.

ultimately, i realize that there is no penal code related to escalator infractions. but if you feel like standing, just step aside so that others can walk. it will not inconvenience you to stand on the right instead of the left, but it WILL inconvenience others if you stand on the left.

for example, at my stop on the way home about half the people on the train get off as well. i purposely sit in the car that stops closest to the escalator so that i can be one of the first people off the train, which makes me one of the first to the escalator, out the gate, to my car and out the station. i have found that standing on the escalator not only adds 10 seconds to my escalator trip, but puts me behind about 50 people getting out the gate (those that run down the stairs on the other side of the station or are ahead of me on the escalator). this may sound insignificant, but it adds a good 5 minutes to the time it takes me to get out of the station (literally) due to the fact that i then get stuck behind slow people walking up the stairs to the parking structure, a bunch of people SLOWLY backing their cars out of parking spaces and a long line of cars exiting the station to the freeway. Over the course of a year, this equates to 21 hours sitting in my car (5 minutes a day x 50 work weeks a year x 5 days a week / 60 minutes an hour). assuming that i commute from age 25 until age 60, this is a whole freakin month wasted just because some inconsiderate idiot couldn't stand on the right!!!

whew, i feel better now.

You are correct that the purpose of the escalator is to move you and not make your walk faster. I'm an agent, but I would love it if an esc./elev. tech. would post something to teach patrons how to use the esc. They tell me all the time that the abuse the escalators take from the people bounding down on them, especially at the landing, leaping down and landing heavily all cause them to break down faster and go out of service.

I personally had to fill out a report because this poor woman fell down the escalator because a jackass side swiped her as he was rushing past. And whenever an accident happens on an escalator, regardless of the fact someone was pushed or the machinery malfunctioned, we have to put it out of service. That's S.O.P., height of commute or not.

We're not going to change people's behavior here, but again, if you want to walk fast or run, TAKE THE STAIRS.

Maybe if BART posted train arrival times near the TOP of the escalators, people wouldn't feel the need to rush down only to find out they have to stand on the platform for ten minutes for their train. True, knowing that your train arrives in a minute may cause some to rush to catch it, but at least some people would know whether to maybe move a bit faster or maybe they would just slow down since they probably wouldn't catch it. In either case, providing the information is usually better than not doing so, but BART doesn't seem to get this, again. BART simply doesn't do a good job of informing its riders of what they need, and want, to know. And you can change some peoples' behavior by looking at and addressing the circumstances that contribute to it. BART should also issue or post some guidelines ... are there signs that tell escalator users to walk on the left and stand on the right? Advising people to use the stairs doesn't help much and is an oversimplification.

Shrapnel's picture

"Maybe if BART posted train arrival times..."

BART does you one better. We have a very detailed schedule posted in every station near the booth; we provide you with paper schedules to take home, to work, where ever; and we have this handy little feature on our website that allows you not only to plan a trip but to download schedules to your cell phone, PDA, or iPod.

"Knowing that your train arrives in a minute may cause some to rush to catch it..."

Why not know which train you need and at what time, and arrive at the station five to ten minutes in advance? It's not BART's responsibility to get you out of bed, showered, and fed in time to make the train. The agent above me recalls an incident where someone was injured because someone didn't plan properly. (Agent, are you in Z1? Did this happen in the morning? How long ago and what station? I might have responded to it...)

"Are there signs that tell escalator users to walk on the left and stand on the right?"

As the agent mentioned above (and I mentioned several posts up), the escalators are to move you, not to speed up your walk. There aren't signs for this very reason. It's assumed as common sense to all those who don't try to run.

"Advising people to use the stairs... is an oversimplification."

Sometimes the simplest answers make the most sense.

1. No, BART doesn't do one better. Just about no one cares about printed schedules except to get a general idea of when a train is expected to arrive, but printed schedules don't tell anyone about real time information and what is happening right now in the system. Do they tell anyone when a train has been taken out of service or is operating at less than normal speed thus slowing down other trains? That's the sort of thing people want and need to know when entering a station or landing ona platform.

2. People are going to walk and sometimes run down the escalators to catch trains regardless of what the real purpose of escalators is. Sometimes people are in a hurry and that's the real world. So, why doesn't BART address the factors that lead some people to do this, including possibly the lack of here and now train information when one enters a station or is at the top of an escalator?

3. The simplest answer that addresses and explains all conditions is usually the correct answer (look up parsimony), but these simple answers don't do that and seem to basically reflect a failure to consider all of the issues. These are just excuses for BART not doing what it should.

My gosh, you're a fool!

The station signs on the platforms don't offer real-time information, they offer information as it should be, per the schedule.

Let me give you a real life scenario. Several evenings ago, a Daly City train was held at MacArthur station due to police action. It was held for over fifteen minutes. But at 12th street, it continually read "Nine car train for San Francisco Daly City in four minutes." Over and over. For 15+ minutes.

So no, the signs don't offer real-time information. And if a train has been taken out of service, a voice anouncment is required.

This has got to be one of the reasons I don't like this website. People complain about things. Then people, be they BART Employees or patrons willing to help offer suggestions, and instead of embracing the suggestions and trying to make them work, the "victims" look for reasons why they can't work. If you don't even put an effort into it, you're right, it's not the correct answer. But at least try before you rule it out.

The poster who said a while back that this website is filled with people with "victim" mentalities who just want to complain and not to find a real solution was right on the money.

So I guess no one should hope that BART would actually provide real-time information? Wasn't that what this part of the discussion was about, what BART SHOULD DO to provide riders with useful information? Duh. Gee, that's the thing I don't like about this site --- too many people who think they have something to say or comment on when it turns out they haven't really read and thought about the subject, can't stick to the topic, and then complain when the discussion wasn't about their new subject at all.