Lady don't leave your coffee on the floor

rafa1215's picture

This morning this lady puts her coffee on the floor for three stops. She was lucky that it didn't spill. She had to pick it up and hold it once we got to Daly City because someone needed to sit across from her. People this is just an accident waiting to happen. If lurkers are reading this - don't leave your coffee cup on the floor. If it would of spilled it would of probably sat there until the train reached the yard.

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you should have "accidentally" bumped it and spilled it all over her shoes.

AntMoOAK's picture

I don't drink coffee (eeeyuukk) but I do drink a Pepsi or an Aquafina (yeah Yeah-bottled water bad I know... I'm changing my behavior on that) and it bugs me that there seemingly exists a double standard where hot liquids in a flimsy cardboard container topped off with a weak plastic top is "allowed" wink wink while I sometimes get dirty looks if I take a swig of Pepsi from a plastic bottle that I keep topped with a secure tightend twist top.

Does this mean that cola in a Jack inthe Box container is OK too ?

It should be one or the other.

What a stupid habit.

Would someone please explain to me why CalTrain is so clean even though it's perfectly legal to eat and drink (even alcohol!) onboard? And if you want to say geography has something to do with it, go ahead, but what about dumbasses like this who put their coffee on the floor? They seem to be everywhere.

TreoBART's picture

It may not be explicitly stated, but you can't drink alcohol on Caltrain... just like you can't drink alcohol while walking down a public street. You may want to leave your pre work beer at home.

BART signs read NO FOOD OR DRINK, but the law states.....

640(b)(4) California Penal Code : Smoking, eating, or drinking in or on any system facility or vehicle in those areas where those activities are prohibited by that system.

Once again BART makes the law confusing. It is not against the law to bring food or drink onto BART. It is only against the law for you to consume the food or drink on BART.

BART is pathetic. If the Sacramento Regional Transit Police (http://www.sacrt.com/penalcode.stm) and the Napa Valley Railroad Police Department (http://nvrpolice.com/nvrlaws.html)can post the transit laws on their web page, why can't BART?

Peets Coffee is going in at some stations... It was on the news. They post the signs IN the station and IN trains since it's the law, POLICE can cite customers "Eating or Drinking" on the train or in the PAID area..

It a backhanded almost a set-up kinda way, BART will sell you a drink and food in the FREE area, but it's THE RIDERS RESPONSIBILITY to follow the law and not take that drink you just purchased in the FREE AREA and take it into the PAID area.

BART (company) can have whoever they want as vendors at a station in the free area, think $$ ... BART POLICE will enforce any laws broken, only a crime to "EAT or DRINK" you can carry that coffee to work, just don't drink it on the train!

Shrapnel's picture

That should be interesting. But I think that the people who buy their coffee at Peets are a different demographic than those who bring their fast food on the trains and leave everything there and throw their onions on the floor. There are slobs throughout different demographics to be sure, but do some quick observations and draw your own conclusions.

AntMoOAK's picture

"Demographics" has nothing to do with it. Those who spill Peet's, Tully's, quaint mom & pop corner coffee klatchy place, etc... coffee ALONG WITH those who spew Church's chicken bones, falafel filling on BART need their ass kicked.

Either enforce the law for all or for none. As demonstrated (and as you noted), there are slobs in all "demographics".

I personally would not have a problem with people drinking on BART as long as percautions and common sense were exercised (although we all know that isn't as common as we would like) ie; container is secure and is in control of the passenger- unlike that of the lady in the picture.

Petes coffee on Bart? thats almost as absurd and backwards as selling beer (sometimes liquor believe it or not!) at gas stations!!!

AntMoOAK's picture

Peet's in the station is kinda a catch-22. In some areas the hot-dog vendor guy can't set up in the morning because people would get on BART with thir goodies- but only in the afternoon when most passengers are leaving (Pitt. Bay Point)

BTW... I'm not advocating a Polish dripping with mustard and relish to go on BART... but sometimes it would be nice if he were able to be there in the morning to get a bottle of water (bad, bad) and some gum or a granola bar.

Thorbjørn's picture

I can see why the rule is no eating or drinking on BART (not no food or drink on BART) since people need to transport food sometimes like leftovers in a box from eating out or groceries. There are even some people without cars or who are handicapped that can't drive who would need to use BART or other transit to transport food.

As far as the Caltrain, I agree it looks better and people treat it better, but I also wonder about the numbers of people that ride. I've only ridden it a few times and it was relatively empty those times and I've never seen it packed in like BART. I imagine the lower ridership, demographics of the peninsula and fact that it looks clean all contribute.

CalTrain is clean cause it is so clean.

BART looks like crap cause people have gotten used to the idea it is ok to crap on bart.

If someone drinks some coffee they are thinking to themselves "i've seen other people do it and nobody said anything". If they spill in BART they think "i've seen other spills it's not the first ( or the worst )". If then spit on the floor on BART they think "i'm not the first (and nobody said anything)"

Cal train makes a effort to clean their trains and people see this and behave in a manor that reflects what they perceive around them.

Also CalTrain's ticketing system does not allow for joy riding, If you do not have a ticket you will be caught, on BART there are no fair inspectors on every train.

(Personally I would like to see BPD make spot check fair inspections I think it would clean things up)

BART Promotes that activity..

Look at the big picture..
Trains looking more like a bus and urban subways and less like CalTrain/AMtrak/Aircraft
-Removal of carpet
-Removal of some seats
They are thinking of changing the seats to smaller plastic ones.

Lack of enforcement of Litter.
Lack of enforcement of Eating/Drinking..
-by putting coffee shops in the station they actually encourage the trains being messy.. (I'm waiting for the first In Station (or on train) Burger King!)
Lack of Police that are ON Trains
-I have always loved how the police inspect the trains at some stations by walking on the outside of the train.

The more they "cheapen" BART, the more crap on BART. Get used to it, it will only get worse.

"EVIL PETE SAID..."
"BART looks like crap cause people have gotten used to the idea it is ok to crap on bart."

Shrapnel's picture

When has a BART Police Officer ever "inspected" a train from the outside?

I'm guessin' what you are talking about is a BART Police Officer WALKING to a specific car. For example, let's say you call in a man who is drunk and passed out in his own puke. The fictitious car is 1495, the 9th car of a ten-car train. In order to get the train in and out and the situation taken care of as soon as possible, the BART Police Officers who were put on that call will walk the length of the train to the 9th car. It's quicker to walk alongside the train at the platform then board and navigate their way through people, packages, luggage, bikes, etc.

BART Police CSOs ride trains on a regular basis and are assigned a beat more or less, and while some are assigned in vehicles others need to ride the trains. Sworn police officers are just a quick radio call away from the CSOs should the need arise. True, a CSO can not cite you for eating or drinking, but they can ask you to stop and if you create a commotion they can radio for assistance.

Enforcement of the no eating/drinking clause of 640 varies from Officer to Officer. Some are very good about enforcing it, with it being an automatic citation, and others are too lazy to do it because of the possibility the offender might contest it, which means a trip to court for the Officer. But are you really willing to take the chance that the Officer might be willing to cite you?

I'm talking about when the officers hold a train for a station sweep.. Many times at West Oakland, and especially during heightened security.

Maybe my use of "Inspect" is incorrect. Station or Train sweeps, where they are supposed to look in the train to avert terrorists. (I kinda concider that an inspection).

Many times my train was held, and many times I watch for, and see the Officer walk along the outside of the train. And about 50% of the time they don't look in..

One of the times I was standing at the door and watched 2 officers walk side by side chattin, when they got to the door I was at, I asked them what they were doing.. They said they have to do station sweeps during their shift.
The female officer gave me a strange look when I asked why they were holding the train if they were not going to look into the train, since she said it was a "station sweep". She blew me off and continued walking down the outside with her buddy chatting.

*shrug*
If you are an officer, are officers required to check trains? AND do they walk down the INSIDE or OUTSIDE of the train when doing security sweeps? (not searching for one individual car)

Vincent's picture

I've seen officers do sweeps on the inside of trains, as well as sweeps outside of trains. I've also seen them hold trains at stations for as long as twenty minutes so that they can have bomb sniffing dogs go through the train.

Does BART police ever put under-cover officers on trains?

Shrapnel's picture

BART Police does have undercover Officers. They might be on the trains, in stations, or walking around the ticket machines... You won't know until they bust someone.

AntMoOAK's picture

I've seen a coupla the undies before and unlike the guys who follow me around Target and are so obvious, you'd be surprised at who just might hop out of a seat and put handcuffs on someone. I remember a while back a young black guy with a backpack looking like he was coming from Laney or someting suddenly jumped up and hustled a guy off the train who thought it would be cool to "light one up on the last car." You can also see them as they exit and they show their badge. I'm not tryin' to bust a BPD's identity- just being observant.

boopiejones's picture

i've never noticed the target undercover people while shopping, except for two times when i saw them bust someone.

the first time i was walking out of the store and suddenly hear someone running at a full sprint behind me. i look back, see this dude hurdle a cash register and tackle this girl in a hoodie from behind. exactly at the point he lowers his shoulder into her lower back a perfectly timed door opens right next to the exit and he throws her into the room, never to be heard from again.

the other time i was driving through the parking lot right past the storefront and a guy comes running out being chased by a second guy. he gets tackled right in front of my car and within seconds there are three guys on top of him and one has his arm in a nasty looking hold that looked like it would snap his arm in half if he didn't surrender. well, he surrendered and they quickly ushered him into that secret room where they took hoodie girl. those target undercover dudes are no joke.

Shrapnel's picture

Undercover officers take many forms. And you are spot-on in noting that detecting them is pretty hard. (Not gonna give away too much here...) From teenage-looking black male Officers to middle-aged soccermom-ish white ladies, BPD has Officers in different shapes and forms in stations, on trains, and walking around BART property. Moral of the story is don't do anything you wouldn't want a cop to see. Who knows, I could be sitting right next to you.

"When has a BART Police Officer ever "inspected" a train from the outside?"

Oh please, let's be real. You guys (maybe not you, specifically) do 59T's from the outside all the time. I've even seen one officer "do a sweep" from the station agent's booth at Ashby-which isn't anywhere near the actual train.

--BART CSO

I love BART Rage. Here you have one employee spouting the company line about BART Police patroling the trains (LOL) and another employee putting down BART Officers while surfing the net on company time. This place is great.

Last time I looked, the 19th Station already has a Subway Sandwiches ( in the non-paid area ).

Personally I think BART can use a police shake down for a couple weeks, have a heightened presence for one business week ( giving warnings ), then the 2nd week start asking for inspect tickets while between stations, and writing tickets to naughty riders.

boopiejones's picture

or even do it like they do drunk driving checkpoints. pick one or two stations and a couple of trains do a very focused fare evasion/naughty rider shakedown. it doesn't have to be system wide as long as it is very focused and heavy handed. if BPD did this even one day a month it would make a big difference.

TreoBART's picture

Great idea, but unless the money fairy shows up it's not gonna happen. Targeted enforcement is all overtime and overtime is expensive.

it may cost some overtime ( and with the help of local PD) but it will pay for itself in the long run by saving in maintenance and reduced crime..

Do it at MacArthur during the transfer, you can get to trains at a time.

Shrapnel's picture

... or four trains at a time. I'd like to see sweeps of Fremont and SF on 2 and 4, and Richmond and Concord on 1 and 3. That would bring in a pretty penny.