Paid for parking, TICKETED ANYWAYS (Fruitvale)
Today I had to use the Fruitvale BART -- where they shot that guy. It was noon, so the "Permit required" rule was no longer being enforced. I wrote down my stall number and paid at the "Pay for Parking" machine in the station.
When I came back, they'd slapped a parking ticket on my windshield anyways.
I'm SURE that I paid and I'm SURE that I entered the right number. The only thing I can think of is there was a rookie parking-ticket dude who just tickets ANYONE in the "permit required" section, regardless of the time of day. (That, or there was a glitch in their payment tracking.)
I mailed in a "dispute" letter to the address on the ticket -- along with the original ticket. I'm not even sure how they're going to notify me of the dispute's resolution. (Er, and if they tell me to pay the ticket anyways, I'm screwed -- because I just sent in the original envelope.)
There was yet ANOTHER
There was yet ANOTHER shooting in the Fruitvale neighborhood. They seem to be averaging one a week lately. Nice neighborhood.
I have sent a copy.. I don't
I have sent a copy.. I don't send originals, way to many chances to get lost.
And Fruitvale is a trash station.. You can see how they act and dress.
There are certain areas that need to be fenced in, call it a luxurious gated community. Like Blackhawk.
you can dispute the ticket
you can dispute the ticket till the cows come home...you will not win. better use of your time/sanity to just pay and move forward. part of the reason why I cycle to the station is because I was given 2 tickets at P-Hill station(this is 4 years ago) that were not valid citations, I protested, but the review is an outside agency and they want the $...so sorry joe commuter, you are going to pay. Douche-bags!
> You can dispute the ticket
> You can dispute the ticket till the cows come home...you will not win.
That's not true. I received a ticket I didn't deserve, contested it, and the ticket was voided immediately. The receipt was all I needed. It was all done by mail and only cost me the price of a stamp.
Now, I usually do cycle to the fruitvale station, but that's not because of parking.
Did you keep the receipt from
Did you keep the receipt from the pay-for-parking machine? With that, it would be easy to prove your case.
(I'm always amazed by how many people don't do that....it seems like very simple insurance.)
Yeah, I have a theory they
Yeah, I have a theory they just rifle through the left-behind receipts -- and then ticket every one of those cars. (Because how you going to prove you paid...if they've got your receipt?)
My understanding is you dispute the ticket, and then that can be reviewed. Can't you, at some point, demand that they produce the record of paid-for spots on that day?
But my bigger question is: HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN? What exactly has to happen for a paid commuter to get a ticket on their windshield anyways? (I really don't want to beliave that the CSAs are just handing them out randomly because they want to issue more tickets and they figure it's your word against theirs....)
they do it to hit their
they do it to hit their quota...and $
I always thought that was a
I always thought that was a myth. (Someone posted that the CSOs only issue about six tickets a day.) Do we know for a fact that they get a commission off of every ticket that they write? (Or that they have a quota?)
I mean, I've always assumed that about police officers -- but I've never been sure it's true.
If there was a quota and
If there was a quota and officers got a bonus for writing tickets, the citizen's would be broke and I wouldn't be driving a 1994 vehicle with 180,000 miles on it!
Unfortunately the C.S.O.'s have certain rules to obide by. The machines track who validates and who doesn't. Not much room for descretion there. Any of the carpool, disabled parking or mid-day parking cites are usually a result of complaints by BART patrons.
I have received four parking citations from my fellow employees when I have forgotten to validate and three from OPD when I couldn't find BART parking. If I only had those "bonuses" to help me pay for them!!!!
Several people say they've
Several people say they've received tickets EVEN AFTER PAYING FOR PARKING (on these boards).
What I want to know is how is that even possible? Does the CSO put the ticket on the wrong windshield? Does everybody complaining simply input the wrong number while thinking they've input the right one? Does the computer make a mistake in tracking the payments -- or is that information difficult to read when it's relayed to the CSOs?
I mean, what's the deal? How is it even possible for this kind of "mistake" to happen?
Personally, I deserved every
Personally, I deserved every ticket I got in the last 12 years. I wish I could blame it on a computer or C.S.O. but I can't. You have some very good questions that I don't have the answers for. I don't have the slightest idea how to print out the proof of validation sheets or whatever they are called. Do computers actually make mistakes? Now you have me wondering????
I realize waiting for and keeping the receipt from the validation machine is too much to ask of some people, but I see piles of them in the change return cup of the machines everyday. I think the 5-10 seconds it takes to process the transaction and issue a receipt is well worth my time. I kept mine everday just to make sure.
Sorry, not much help I guess.
hindsight was 20/20, after I
hindsight was 20/20, after I got back to my windshield and saw the ticket. nobody would assist me though, and this is one of those instances where unfortunately you are guilty until proved innocent. not trying to be Debbie Downer, but that's how my situation happened...boy sure am glad I can let things go! :)
Come on Officer Jo-Jo, you
Come on Officer Jo-Jo, you should know the answer to some of these questions :) But then again, most of you leave the parking up to the CSOs and just tell patrons to call the phone number.
Let me see if I can clear some stuff up for you guys...
CSOs issue tickets based on a printout. When you type your stall number into a validation machine, it removes your stall from the printout, leaving us with a list of unpaid stalls. Sometimes you can be paying for your stall after we've already printed the report and are out writing citations. We don't have the technology (cuz BART's too cheap) to have real time updates for that. So the CSO then has to print a second report after s/he is done writing the tickets, to make sure none of the stalls have come up paid in the meantime.
So there are two ways the error could have occured. The third is if the machine malfunctions. This doesn't happen often, but when it does, IT SUCKS and results in many many erroneous tickets.
These reasons are why you should keep your receipt every day. With that receipt, a swing shift CSO (or an officer who knows what he's doing...ahem) can issue you a validation receipt and take back the ticket so it doesn't even go through processing. Much easier to deal with the issue that day, instead of writing in about it later.
Not every ticket issue is denied. There are those who get their tickets excused. I feel bad for the guy that has to do that job, but he signed up for it.
And no, we don't have quotas. Some stations (like Walnut Creek or Orinda) have more tickets issued, whereas some stations (like El Cerrito Plaza or South Hayward) don't, for various reasons. We don't make a bonus based on how many tickets we write, or some CSOs would be screwed. The swing shift CSOs don't write many, and the CSO who works Powell St. and the downtown stations doesn't have any parking lots!
THANK you! That was actually
THANK you! That was actually useful information.
I keep hearing people saying "Don't bother fighting it, because there's no way to win." So I was glad to hear you say that not every ticket issue is denied. (I'm appealing, but the general assumption seems to be that the Southern California processor makes more money if they deny every appeal.) I wonder how often that happens.
I have another question about something you wrote, CSOBART. You said...
"So the CSO then has to print a second report after s/he is done writing the tickets, to make sure none of the stalls have come up paid in the meantime."
Er, so what happens then? If the CSO looks at the second report, and realizes that they've left a ticket on a car that DID pay -- then are they supposed to go back to that car and remove their ticket?
And I guess the real question is: how much time is involved in this process? The Fruitvale BART station is a four-story garage. So does that mean the CSO's information is up-to-date when he starts on the top floor, but if it takes them an hour to work their way down to the bottom floor -- then everyone who's parked there within the last hour will get a ticket?
"Er, so what happens then? If
"Er, so what happens then? If the CSO looks at the second report, and realizes that they've left a ticket on a car that DID pay -- then are they supposed to go back to that car and remove their ticket?"
Yes, that's what the CSO has to do. Usually, this isn't a problem because by the time we start writing validation cites the lots are full so there aren't many stalls open to be paid for while we're writing.
"So does that mean the CSO's information is up-to-date when he starts on the top floor, but if it takes them an hour to work their way down to the bottom floor -- then everyone who's parked there within the last hour will get a ticket?"
Yes again. That's why we have to print a second report-to make sure our info is still current. There are easier solutions, but they cost money. So we waste two pieces of paper a day to check. Accidents happen, but we try to prevent an erroneous ticket as much as we can.
The vacant stall number would
The vacant stall number would show up as non-paid at the parking control machine. The CSO probably printed out the sheet with the stall number showing non-paid just as you were walking to the station. They allow for some walking time before beginning the ticketing process. This happened to me a while back, fortunately, I kept the receipt and the CSO explained there was a half-hour gap between his print out and the time I paid for parking - he was in the lot ticketing other vehicles. Ultimately, it was voided because I had proof. BART will not install parking validation machines in the parking lot/structure because part of the "contract" with the patron is that he/she enters BART to ride/board a train to their destination. Thus the lag time. Thanks to the CSO who spent the time explaining this to me last year.